Darren Lynn Bousman Talks 'Spiral,' Chris Rock's Love Of Horror & The Badassness Of Samuel L. Jackson [Interview]

Darren Lynn Bousman has a deep connection to the ‘Saw‘ franchise. After all, it was Bousman who found his footing as a filmmaker with the second, third, and fourth installments in the popular horror film series. In return, the notorious Jigsaw achieved a fandom of his own, undoubtedly creating one of the wisest additions to horror villain history. After years of crafting wicked worlds surrounding films like the 2010 “Mother’s Day” remake, “Repo! The Genetic Opera,” and “The Devil’s Carnival” it only seems fitting that Bousman would return to breathe new life into all things ‘Saw.’

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Bousman’s latest addition to the ‘Saw’ franchise, “Spiral,” acts as more than a reinvention. The filmmaker sticks with the familiar cinematic structure of equal parts horror and thriller but introduces a surprising addition of humor to the bloody series. Bousman sat down recently to discuss the project, its significance in these times, and how the way he approached an all too familiar series staple changed.

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One of the aspects that stood out to me in “Spiral” is how you changed the look from previous “Saw” films. Can you talk about the bold use of colors, the cinematography, and the sensory details? There were times when characters would talk about a smell or you would see sweat or heat, things like that.

So, a lot of that comes from the collaboration with the cinematographer Jordan Oram. Jordan and I met in Toronto. I was a huge fan of one of the music videos he did for Drake. You would never know this from looking at me but I am a huge hip-hop fan and I had Drake on in my office. There was a video of his ‘God’s Plan’ and I just loved the look of it and I asked them to find out who the DP of that was. Ironically, the DP of God’s Plan was four blocks from the production offices of “Spiral.” I was like can we get him to come meet with me. So, he came in and we met. What I said is what I did not like about a few of the “Saw” films was they changed the look and aesthetic to pretty, glossy almost.

I wanted to go back to a feeling of uncomfortableness; what I meant was not necessarily grit and grime but sweat, heat. I wanted it to feel uncomfortable. Everyone was walking around on the hottest day of the week cause I think we all can relate to when it’s hot and you’ve got sweat stains. It just feels icky but I think that is a character in the film, to get tension out through the look in characters and the environment.  It’s such a powerful thing. That is how that happened and that’s how we were able to kind of create that. You know using sound as well — the broken air conditioners, fans always on. I think that was something else. If you go back and look at the film there are air conditioners or fans in every single scene that are broken down or on their last leg. It helps me, it’s a trick. It creates a sense of tension before the actual tension begins. 

What interests me about the use of traps and gore in “Spiral” is you use a character’s reaction or show a glimpse of the body hanging. You go away from that very strong “keep the camera on the gore” and instead turn it to the human aspect. 

Thank you for saying that. That was something that I was really… that was something that was important to me as a father, now as a husband. I’m the same guy who made “Saw 2” but I have a lot more life behind me. I have two kids, a dog, and a wife. Things that bother me now that didn’t bother me before. To say shoot the most graphic thing now to me. There’s a scene, I know you know what I’m talking about, there’s flashes of a body but it stays on Chris and his reaction. That is where the fear and paranoia should come from, not from seeing a prop but from a man who’s breaking on the inside. That to me is more disturbing; to me as an adult now I’m more disturbed by looking at his reaction than seeing a red thing on screen. So, we definitely have violence. There’s definitely gore in the movie but it’s based around character and it’s based around suspense. It’s not just there to show you violence. 

What was it like working out the characters with Chris Rock?

Chris was instrumental in every aspect of this production, from getting it made to interjecting humor into it such as the Forrest Gump monologue. 

I loved that line. I was going to ask if Chris improvised that or was it in the script?

That was 100% Chris, Chris wrote that. I would love to take credit for it but that was all Chris. Chris was interesting. His big thing was he wanted to be damaged and he wanted to be broken, so he kept pushing us further. Like he was like no I don’t have a wife because she left me, my kid’s with her, the police department hates me, I’ve got a bad relationship with my father. He kept pushing it to be worse because he wanted to be kind of a broken man. Then, on top of that, he would look at every scene we would write and say I can’t say it like that. He had a good mantra on set, I can’t say things and make it sound like it’s the first time I’ve ever said them. Meaning, he can’t say for the first time out it’s got to be he’s internalizing it so the conversation would be more natural. He was great in really refining his character to make him complicated, to make him a little lighthearted when he needed to be but go serious when it had to go. 

My understanding was this was a story that Chris came up with initially. Is that correct? 

It’s murky even for me. I was talking to Chris today. Chris always wanted to make a “Saw” movie. He was always a fan of the franchise and he had a take on what if you made a movie like “Saw 2” a police investigation movie but you allowed the character to be more humorous. You allowed him to be more like Eddie Murphy in “48 Hours” and then he was introduced to the writers Josh Stolberg and Pete Goldfinger and the three of them sat in a room and came up with the idea of this. But I’ll tell you Chris did numerous rewrites on the script where he would go away and write that amazing dialogue that you hear like Forrest Gump or him and Max in the car where you give your wife 600 Tuesdays doesn’t equal two Saturday nights, whatever that line is. That’s all Chris. It’s his voice. It’s his idea. So, Chris was amazing in that respect of going through and polishing the dialogue. 

You mentioned he likes “Saw.” Did he come from a background of liking horror in general or did that franchise just stand out to him?

I’ll tell you from my time working with him on set I was surprised at how much horror he knew. He would reference obscure horror movies. I think he’s a lover of movies. He knows cinema; he’s a director himself. I think he just knows it. That became our language on set, he would reference movies to me and I know exactly what you’re talking about. 

You had the chance to work with the amazing Samuel L. Jackson. It must have been incredible to work with him and Chris bouncing off of each other. 

I felt like I was part of something cool, like when you watch “Pulp Fiction” for the first time. Ironically with Sam Jackson, you know you’re looking at something cool. The teaming of these two guys felt electric. With Sam — for me — was the most awkward I’ve felt as a director because I was such a fan of his. I talked about this with another interviewer. When I was a kid, and I’m sure all kids do this, you play with toys. You get on the floor, you put your army men out, you put your Barbie dolls out, and you play. I felt like when I was directing Sam Jackson it felt like that in the real world because here is this badass who’s been one of the most badass characters on screen in numerous movies not just “Pulp Fiction” but you go through his entire line of movies and he is a badass. I would be like pull your gun and shoot this guy and Sam would go in front of the camera and do and I was like this is crazy. So, it was like a fever dream. 

Thi film touches on some real social issues that are making headlines over the past year or so. It seems like horror is a genre that can do that. Do you feel like going into this project you were making a film that was so timely?

I think what I love about the “Saw” franchise is there’s always been a message. You go back to “Saw” or “Saw 2” there’s always a message and that’s what made this character Jigsaw so interesting to watch. Going into “Spiral” we wanted it to have a message; we all wanted the killer to say something because if he’s just killing for the sake of killing it becomes exploitative. We wanted him to have a message. Sadly that message becomes more powerful by the day as you look at the news and on a daily basis there’s something new. It was never our intention going in to make a political message and that’s how sad our society is right now, it became one. I made a movie in Thailand recently. I was really worried about it because I did not want to portray Thailand as this villainous, nefarious people. It was a very scary movie set in Thailand. So, instead, I got Westerners to come over to play some of the villains to help offset that. You’re not putting all the onus on one person or thing. When I came into this movie I said if we’re gonna go after police as these corrupt officers it is critical that the hero is a cop. If you’re going to attack officers then the hero has to come. Not everyone is evil, it is a select group of people. So, at the same time, you have to show light to the good ones as well. That was one of the first big mandates, Zeke had to be a cop; he couldn’t be anything else. Yeah, but it’s crazy how timely the movie feels now after a year’s push. 

“Spiral” is out now in theaters.