In 2019, I spoke with legendary composer Hans Zimmer about his music for the live-action reimagining of “The Lion King.” It was a conversation that spanned such topics as his collaborations with Christopher Nolan, live performances, and, most notably, his work on Denis Villeneuve‘s adaptation of Frank Herbert‘s iconic sci-fi novel “Dune.” Zimmer instantly fell in love with Herbert’s original novel during his teens relating heavily to the moodiness and angst of Paul Atreides and when I previously asked about what we could expect for the soundscape of Villeneuve’s “Dune,” Zimmer hinted at the fact that he’s been waiting for this moment his whole life, refining the sounds of Arrakis, House Atreides, and the rest of Herbert’s vast world in his head. It comes then as no surprise that Zimmer’s “Dune” score is a wholly unique, original, otherworldly, arrangement marking an almost culmination of the innovative and influential path he’s paved for film composition over the course of over three decades. In the words of Zimmer himself, “I took the training wheels off.”
“Dune” centers around the heir of House Atreides, Paul Atreides (Timothee Chalamet), as he embarks on a journey to the planet Arrakis to help ensure the future of his family and people. What he doesn’t yet realize is the great destiny that awaits him on the other side. As ancient rivals explode into conflict over the planet’s exclusive supply of the most precious resource in existence, Paul and his mother, Lady Jessica (Rebecca Ferguson), must enlist the help of the Fremen, Arrakis natives, to rid the planet of this tyrannical rule.
If “Dune” was the only project Zimmer lent his talents to in 2021 it would undoubtedly be a monumental achievement, however, the composer also orchestrated the music for another lifelong dream project: a James Bond film. If you’ve listened to any Hans Zimmer score, especially “Inception,” it’s no secret the maestro has a great affinity for John Barry. It also just so happens that Zimmer is a longtime James Bond fan and with Daniel Craig‘s fifth and final outing as 007, “No Time To Die,” he was not only able to lend his signature genius to the music of the film, but honor the legacy of Barry, his friend and colleague, David Arnold, and the rich musical history of the almost sixty-year-old franchise.
Between both “Dune” and “No Time To Die,” Zimmer delivers two masterful compositions that rank as some of finest work to date triumphantly announcing the return of cinema on the big screen better than anyone else could have. This is where I led off when I sat down to discuss both films with Hans Zimmer.
It’s nice to see movies like “Dune and “No Time To Die” back on the big screen again. I just saw “No Time to Die” for the third time in IMAX and still can’t get over the sheer spectacle of it.
Yeah, the two movies I’ve made recently are definitely movies that were made for the big screen. They were made by people who live for the big screen just like I live for big speakers, I suppose.
Nowhere is that more true than with your score for “Dune.” Seeing the film and listening to the score, it almost plays on its own, and it’s unlike anything you’ve done before.
Well, the interesting thing is, Denis and I discovered over the past few weeks, not as much when we were making the film, that we were both teenagers when we read the book. Rather than approaching it with wisdom and looking back on things, it actually became something that took us back to that time. I think part of what the score does is, it’s relatively reckless, [like] a teenager who wants to experiment and try things out, and doesn’t understand he’s not supposed to do certain things. I do think there’s an innocence about it which, had it not taken me back to that time of being 15, 16, I would have probably written a more cautious score.”
There is something moody and angsty about the music that emphasizes Paul’s youth. We’re living in a unique situation where “Dune” was written before so many works it inspired, and now the film is coming out after films like “Star Wars” or “Harry Potter.” Paul Atreides was the prototype for characters like Luke Skywalker. I’m curious about the challenge in creating a soundscape that takes into account how the story has changed over the years but still captures Paul in the truest sense?
Let me make confession #1. I never saw David Lynch’s movie and the television series, and I never heard Toto’s music, quite simply because I was making a movie in my head, and I was happy with that. Back when I heard David Lynch was making a movie I thought, “oh, that’s exciting,” and then I heard it was 90 minutes, two hours, and instinctively I thought, “there’s no way you can tell that story in that amount of time.” I don’t want my vision to be blurred. So I missed out on a lot of things.
The other confession is “Star Wars.” I must have seen “Star Wars” not that long after I read “Dune.” Look, John Williams is my hero, the music of “Star Wars” is undeniably a masterpiece, but with the hubris of a teenager, as I was reading “in a galaxy far far away…” and hearing trumpets and cellos, I was going, “Wait a second, why are we hearing trumpets and cellos? I thought this was supposed to be a galaxy far far away!” I remembered that when Denis very quietly said to me, “Have you ever heard of a book called ‘Dune?’” I think I scared him a little bit with my enthusiasm! But everything that he said about his dream to go and make this, I knew he was talking about the movie I made in my head, except of course he made it much better than me. Our conversations were endless but our discussions about how something should be were very limited. I’d say, “Well what about something like…” and he would finish the sentence. It was like we were thinking of one mind.
One of the things we carried with us was that we always felt, it wasn’t so much that Paul is the hero, but it is the women who carry the power, who drive the story forward. So if you go back to what I was saying about how, in a futuristic society why would we have conventional instruments, one thing we would still have is the human body. And so, the great female singers I got to invite on this journey with me was where I felt the heart was. There’s a weird spirituality about the movie that’s not religion. I was trying to capture that. One of the problems with the book of course is that there’s a lot of internal monologue. We didn’t want to do voiceover, so part of my job was to go and, not pervert the feeling of the internal monologue, but sort of bend the action a little bit in a way that you knew people were thinking of other things.
I think that’s what’s so effective about your score in this film is, Denis is doing so much work with visual worldbuilding, but you add in a lot of the texture. I don’t think there’s a moment where the score lets up. It’s so integral in immersing someone into that world. I feel like what you guys do is you show the world, but then you add those textures subtly through sound. It’s unlike any fantasy coming-of-age story I’ve seen before.
I think a lot of that is Denis and just the fact that we wanted to do something that would invite an experience and especially for people who’ve never even heard of or read the book. In a funny way, I was more interested in them, in writing things where people could discover something they’d never thought of before. If you’d read “Dune,” you would be much more prepared. The story would be much more outlandish and strange if you had no clue what you were walking into. I like the idea that we were presenting a mystery here.
Something else you mentioned that I think is interesting, because it plays into both “Dune” and James Bond, is the internal monologue. I mean that’s such a huge part of Ian Fleming’s Bond. Capturing that is very difficult to do, and I think “No Time to Die” does it in spades. You even manage to do that with the cues, like bringing back David Arnold’s Vesper theme.
And that’s a far more obvious way. There’s a dictionary of themes to draw from, and Steve Mazzaro was vital in that. I was very aware that it was Daniel [Craig]’s last movie, and we had 16 years of his life in it. We weren’t being trivial. I don’t see these things as “oh we had an idea last week and quickly made a movie.” Seconds of our lives have been ticking away, so we take it very seriously.
I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you about the bagpipes in this score.
That’s entirely Denis and I love this. I’m watching the scene of them arriving in Arrakis, and there is the bagpiper, and I went, “Hang on, tell me about this.” He goes, “Well, you can’t just do trumpets, you can’t do fanfare, but this ancient instrument could have been around forever.” I found a friend in Edinburgh, and I said, “Any chance you might know any bagpipers?” and within moments, I had 30 bagpipers ready to go. There aren’t many scores with bagpipes and heavy metal guitars underneath them. But it was that constant inspiration that Denis and I would whisper to one another. I truly love this movie, I think you can tell.
Oh, the second that you said you had been with this story since your youth, I was like, “Oh, he’s gonna bring out the big guns for this one, it’s gonna be the culmination of everything he’s been working towards,” and I think it is.
I took the training wheels off. I didn’t need them anymore.
You’ve worked with two of the great visionaries working today, Christopher Nolan and Denis, and I was curious if you could talk about how they differ and how they might be similar in how they work with you.
That answer requires an evening and a good bottle of wine. I’ve worked with Terry Malick, Ridley Scott, John Schlesinger, Stephen Frears, Jeffrey Katzenberg. Penny Marshall, people never understand what a brilliant director she was. And yes they have far less in common than they have in common, and that’s the great excitement about it. It’s not that Chris does this and Denis does something else, but I will tell you something about Denis. Denis will inspire you with brilliant ideas, and then lead with absolute confidence. The strength and confidence he has never wobbles, he never gets afraid. This was a huge project and we’re only halfway through. But the gentleness and kindness, and his ability to listen to you, his ability to make anybody in the room feel included, is really extraordinary and special.
“Dune” hits theaters and HBO Max on October 22.