You also had quite a quick turnaround after you parted ways with “Jane Got A Gun,” I really thought it would be another few years before we got a new Lynne Ramsay film, but, alas, I was wrong, how did you do it? Was it always in the works?
No, it wasn’t, this actually came quite soon after ‘Jane,”‘ I wrote the first draft on spec, because the production company I was working for didn’t have the rights to Jonathan Ames‘ novel, so it was just, “Let’s see how this works,” and then four weeks later I had a draft. I was like “Oh my God, I think I’m really into this now.” [laughs] Then I got in touch with Jonathan Ames and he knew my work and he liked it, and I told him I was going to do more and it wasn’t just going to be a straight-on adaptation and he was cool with it. We just started emailing each other, talking about our lives and it just became what it became. And, I also wrote it quite fast too, so It was nice, oh I forgot to mention I wrote it in the Greek Islands, where there were no cars, not many distractions.
It’s interesting for you to say that you wrote the film quickly because, in its essence, there is very little dialogue in the actual movie, it is much more about images and sound.
You know, I kind of think in images. I have a feeling of the shot rather than what is being spoken by the characters. With this movie, it’s hard to describe my process exactly, but it was something like that.
That’s why your films sometimes feel like they are inspired by silent cinema, does that era of moviemaking inspire you?
Not necessarily filmmakers of the silent era, but maybe those that came right after the silent era like Hitchcock. I wasn’t a huge fan of silent cinema, but I did like stuff like [Carl] Dreyer, and how frightening it could be to shoot movies in that era. It was a real skill, those were the most fascinating and challenging times for filmmakers because that was when you couldn’t allow words, so you had to tell a story visually and I think that’s where the base of cinema comes from.
You do use images and omit inessential words in the dialogue, it feels like a dark comic strip, and I find that you’ve been doing that more and more with every movie.
Yeah, that’s a fine way of putting it, like a comic strip. Someone told me “this is like a graphic novel” and I was like “cool” [laughs]. I like comic books when I was a kid. I had a boyfriend, he was a bit older, and he had boxes of comic books, and I remember he bought me the original edition of “The Dark Knight Returns” and that taught me how a story could be told economically and still be emotional, so I think there’s something in that. That book kind of changed the way I saw narratives, but going back to Hitchcock, that’s kind of how he worked, so there was an influence from reading that stuff as a kid and thinking that way that has led me to making these kinds of movies.
Joaquin Phoenix is unique on and off-screen voice, how was that experience like for you?
He’s just a genius. With him, it’s about finding a way that feels right by going with instinct. I think on my feet a lot, and if something feels wrong there’s no point in pursuing it. You can write something that’s as beautiful as a sunny day, but another day it could feel wrong, maybe you might be having a bad day and that bleeds into your perception of that scene you thought was great the other day. Also, if somebody has an idea that feels like it could better the script then I have no problem with it sneaking into the film, it’s all about being in service of the film, you know? You can’t have an ego, you know what I mean? That to me is Joaquin. He would question things a lot, and I loved it. He just put me in a place that I thought was better, and he came seven weeks early [laughs] he came before we shot, so he felt like a member of the crew [laughs] and he almost acted as a DP. We ended up talking about the shots, and that’s invaluable. It’s also brilliant to watch him, exciting, I mean no take was the same. It was never the same thing. He’d say “let’s make this one funny,” or “let’s change the flavor.” It was just exciting to be around, an exciting shoot. It’s wonderful to be doing a shoot and to be feeling that creative. Just to have that kind of energy around. He’s the best. I think I found my soulmate. [laughs]
Yeah, I think he’s probably the best actor working right now in the industry.
I agree. Unique. It’s all about the working. He loves to be on-set, he loves to be around. He’s like me, when I finish a film and I release it, it’s done, I usually don’t watch it again for years.
I really hope you guys make more movies together. It sounds like a very special work relationship you guys have there. And, it’s funny, because I had just read something about how “Lynne Ramsay needs to now go back and make female-centered films” [laughs]
Oh, God. It’s fine for guys to make films about women but I’m not … you know, that is bullshit. I’m a filmmaker first and I happen to be a woman. What happened to just being treated equally.
What do you think of all these movements happening right now in the industry?
I think it’s great. The moment somebody stops asking me what it’s like to be a women director, and I don’t mean that you’ve asked that because you haven’t, and people start asking “guys, what’s it like being a male filmmaker,” when we start asking that question then maybe we’re getting somewhere, you know what I mean? It’s not just women, it’s predominantly been a white male industry for decades. I just want to see more female voices telling stories.
Amazon Studios will release “You Were Never Really Here” in select theaters April 6.