How did Gillian Flynn come on board as your co-screenwriter? How did you guys work together to fashion the script?
Gillian came on board after I put the rights in place in Chicago. We were both very lucky that we both wanted to collaborate on this project. It was one of those things where you talk and talk and talk, and go back and forth with scripts. My version. Her version. We would meet up and talk through things. We went to FBI headquarters here and spoke to private detectives. We spoke to religious leaders and Congressmen – all off [the] record. It was like being private investigators in a way. It got to the point where when we were writing, it was like two guitarists. You couldn’t tell who was playing which note. It was amazing.
You mentioned your love of the original mini-series. Were there certain beats that you were like, “Listen, I don’t care what else we do, but we have to put A, B, C, and D in because that’s the genesis of this story that needs to be there?”
Well, the main genesis of the story was of these men, husbands basically, come to this heist and that they died in tragic circumstances and the women had to pull off their last job. That’s the basis. Everything else was up for grabs, really.
While you were writing were you thinking of actors and actresses you wanted to play these roles?
No. I never do that because I always want the freedom to do what the hell I want. See, if I put a name in mind for a part, it limits you. I never want that. So after, I start to think, “O.K., who can be the best for this?” And you start to audition or talk to people, and what not.
Just one last question about the screenplay. I think you really started working on it in 2015? Is that correct?
Oh, god, no. Way before that. I mean, I started thinking about it and sort of priming it in 2013. At the same time as ’12 Years.’ Again, at the same time, when you start really putting pen to paper was actually like the end of 2014, something like that, yeah.
Did the election in 2016, did BREXIT, did that whole year sort of change anything that you had put in thematically? Did that affect where the script went? Robert Duvall’s character, in particular, has some things to say that tie into recent political events.
No. We had the politics already, but what did happen was that I wanted it to be this sort of this hanging on of the baton. At the same time, that was very evident in the history of Chicago, that kind of nepotism. So, we added in this element of the changing of the old guard into the new somehow or way. The reason why I did that because I thought, “O.K., we have to understand where this comes from.” Again, it’s like the whole idea of this whole film is about understanding the context of this heist, and to do so, one has to understand this city. I didn’t want to put blinkers on just for the heist. I wanted to the supporters to understand the context of where this was happening.
So you finished the script, and you’ve got these incredible roles, and for a number of great actresses, primarily, and some actors as well.
And actors as well.
How did Viola become your Veronica? Was that a harder pitch than you thought it would be or was she on board right away?
It was zen. She was offered a role where she could be a great woman. Where she has a lover, a husband. She had a vagina, and all her decisions were made from love. I think she was very excited about that. I think she’s an amazing actor.
The other great performers that blew me away was Elizabeth’s. Had you seen her in something before? Was it just meeting with her that you knew that she had this great performance in her?
She was in a Jean Genet play called “The Maids,” which I loved. She was great in it, so I called her in for an audition, and that was it. I met her firstly at some kind movie premiere which I didn’t want to be at, but I didn’t know her. But then I heard of this Jean Genet play she was in, and I thought, let’s try an audition. She just hit the ball out of the park, and that was it.
Another thing I love about this movie is you give Michelle Rodriguez a chance to really show her dramatic chops, which I feel like few filmmakers or directors have allowed her to do before, just based on the material she’s been offered. How did that casting come about?
As a person, she’s kind of neat. Again, her first movie, “Girlfight.” I think I just trusted in my instincts on it, really. I didn’t really know, but I trusted my instinct. I offered her the role, but she said “No.” And I went to meet her and then I just knew this was a very sensitive sort of retrospective woman and she [needed to] overcome things in her mind about the character. And she did. The character reminded her of her mother. Therefore, she was too close to her at one point; I think that was why she said no. Then she went to find her way and was just tremendous in this picture. Tremendous.
In this film, there are explosions, and there are gun battles, there are chases and stuff. Was that fun for you to go in…
Once again, it never negated the weight or the seriousness of this. It never negated the weight or the seriousness of the film.
Right.
I’ve done a movie about a hunger strike. I’ve done a movie about a sex addict, slave rape. This is a film about the state in which we find ourselves, and corruption, race, poverty, sexism. This is a fine line of where we are right now, where we find ourselves, this is as serious as any film I’ve ever made. The fact that there is a heist sort of city running through this project doesn’t take away the weight of it at all. If anything, it is about these women mobilizing themselves in order to make space, this sort of do something that we can keep our heads above the water. Yes. It is a little bit of a fictional stretch, but isn’t every movie like that?
Sure.
Again, that’s what it is. I mean, if it had men in it, it wouldn’t matter. It’s all about what metaphors one uses to talk about the world that we live in today. That’s why again it’s just because it has this idea of a heist running through it; it doesn’t lessen the point of what I’m talking about. If anyone thinks it’s less than this sexism, racism, and corruption, and everything else I talk about in this picture has less test than anything I’ve done before, I will ask them to look again.
I think it’s an incredible film. I really appreciate you taking the time.
Can I just add the whole idea of this picture to me is to bring it “in.” Basically, I want the people that I’m making this film about, I want the people that I’m making fun about, I want them to come to the cinema, as well as the people that I’ve been very fortunate to have to support my pictures before. Yes. It’s about aiming it at a large audience, because that’s my responsibility as a filmmaker, especially in these times. We can’t put ourselves in bubbles. One has to zero in on and at the same time not lower the standards of what one is talking about because- you get that from [films like] “The Godfather.” You get that from films like “Chinatown.” These films had broad mass appeal, but [also] had this serious sort of story to tell.
“Widows” is now playing nationwide.