Exclusive: Vincent Cassel Talks 'Mesrine,' His (Atypical) Favorite Gangster Films & Working With Darren Aronofsky & David Cronenberg

Superstar French actor Vincent Cassel is no stranger to playing villains, and his latest is no different.

The Cesar award winning two-part biopic, “Mesrine,” opens today in limited release at several arthouse cinemas around the country. Part 1, “Killer Instinct,” opens this week, followed next week by Part 2, subtitled “Public Enemy # 1.”

Those looking for another modern day gangster classic along the lines of such recent gems as “City of God,” “The Pusher Trilogy,” “Gomorrah” or the Oscar-nominated “A Prophet” (which opened for most of the country earlier this year and shares a screenwriter with “Mesrine”) are in for some degree of disappointment, as this is one character who doesn’t necessarily deserve the epic treatment bestowed on him by director Jean-François Richet (previously known for his tepid remake of “Assault on Precinct 13.”

But it is Cassel’s magnetic performance as the titular and infamous real-life Jacques Mesrine that keeps the film(s) from being a total letdown. You can read our take on both films here. Be on the lookout next week for further analysis of the films, though we warn you, we’re not sure the pictures add much to this genre.

We chatted about “Mesrine” via phone recently with Cassel while he visited New York to promote the films, discussing his career thus far, the need for two films, what character from a past film of his would idolize Mesrine, his upcoming work in Darren Aronofsky’s “Black Swan” and David Cronenberg’s “A Dangerous Method” and more.

The Playlist: What film of yours are you most proud of?
Vincent Cassel: I don’t know really. I have to say I’ve been pretty spoiled since the beginning. Working with directors of my generation I’ve been really picky, you know. It seems like most of the movies I did in France were really important for me from “La Haine” to “Irreversible” to “Brotherhood of the Wolf.” “Dobermann” – I worked twice with this guy Jan Kounen [ed. the other film being “Renegade”]. So most of them were turning points of my life, really, [collaborating] with people of my generation trying to shake the tree of French tradition in cinema. They were not always well received, but in a way we didn’t really care. We knew why were making them, and even though sometimes they were a bit shocking I thought it was important for us to make them.

Are you happy with the balanced career you’ve had thus far, appearing in Hollywood movies ( “Oceans 12,” “Eastern Promises”) compared to your more odd movies like “Sheitan” where it looks like you’re having so much fun in a movie you know most people won’t see?
But it doesn’t really matter. These are young directors, and I think it’s important. I’m not doing this job just for the audience. I have to enjoy myself too. I need that energy of young directors trying things. Most of the time first movies can be, let’s say not perfect, but at least they have an urgency. I still need that to enjoy myself on set…I don’t know, maybe I’m planning long term relationships [with these young directors].
The opening text for “Mesrine” states: “All films are part fiction. No film can recreate the complexity of a human life. Each with its own point of view.” How does this apply to both films?
The truth is that it’s impossible to really say what [Jacques] Mesrine really did, or not. We worked from the book he wrote called “Killer Instinct” and it’s just a bunch of lies. He created a persona. This guy wanted to be bigger than he really was and he managed to be believable in that. You have to know that still today were not quite sure this guy really killed anybody. None of the murders he’s been accused of have been proven still today even though he was executed with seven bullets in the middle of the street by the French police.

Was it more important to adapt the book even though it’s most likely made up of lies?
We didn’t really adapt the book. We completed it by talking to a lot of people he worked with, and the police, his kids; so it’s not just from the book. We took that as a base, let’s say as a time line, but then for the rest we had to use a lot of research with the writer. So we don’t really know what’s exactly true or not, but to be totally honest, I’m not really concerned with that. It’s not about reality. It has to look and sound real.

There’s that scene early in Part 2 where he mentions to his lawyer that he basically made it all up, saying people want pace and action. Was it important to acknowledge this about Mesrine?
He was very modern in that sense. He was the first gangster to really use the media. I guess that’s part of the character, the fact he plays with the media so much, with people’s minds. I guess that’s part of the reason people still like him even though he did all those terrible things. He was a storyteller.
It’s interesting you say people like him because I found the character to be completely unsympathetic. He’s a pretty awful guy all around. What redeeming things did you find in him?
There is no redemption, really. The idea was to show everything he was, being a racist, violent to women, a thief, a murderer. What you think about the character at the end, knowing the movies never tell you what to think is who you are as an audience. Some people come out saying he was terrible but it was not right , and some people say he should’ve died much earlier. We didn’t try to make a movie about a sympathetic guy. At one point I pulled out of the movie when it was taking a direction I didn’t like. It was [at that time] about making him too much a hero.

What drew you to the character?
It was definitely good subject matter for a movie. Growing up in Paris, I could feel the interest of even young people towards this guy. He’s still a very iconic figure in France, and I wanted to play with that. Especially, he’s a huge star in the projects, the suburbs of France. Most of that area is filled with second generation immigrants from North Africa. And knowing this guy started his career by killing two Arabs I thought it was interesting to confront his fan base with that reality. It was an interesting contradiction.
So it’s safe to say your character from “La Haine” would be a big fan of Jacques Mesrine?
Totally. Exactly. I thought about it, of course, doing the movie. Vince would’ve been a big Mesrine fan, no doubt about it.

It seems we’re seeing more of these multi-part, epic takes on real-life, iconic figures of the recent past. There’s Soderbergh’s “Che” and Assayas’ upcoming, five-hour Carlos. Why does Mesrine deserve that epic treatment?
Actually for a long time I fought for making only one movie about him. But then the scriptwriter [ Abdel RaoufDafri] came to me with first 2o pages he told me: “Ok, if you really only want to make one movie, you tell me after reading these 20 pages, and I will fight by your side to make one movie. But if you like it, let me know.” And the fact that from one scene to another you never really know what to think about the character anymore, I thought those ups and downs could go on for two movies. Especially knowing this guy did so many things in such a short amount of time.

Obviously “Mesrine” is indebted to many well-known gangster films, in particular “Goodfellas” and “Scarface,” to name a few. What films from the genre do you think it’s indebted to?
I would say all those [Jean-Pierre] Melville movies with Jean-Paul Belmondo and Alain Delon, all that era. The very provision kind of gangster movies from the ’60s we had in France, more than anything else, I guess. It’s not like the movie making is exactly in that style, but more with the characters, the dialogue and the kind of settings more than literally the technique of filming. [Director] Jean-Francois is a real movie buff. He watched everything. I know he’s a big fan of Michael Mann, and I think there is something about the way he uses filming techniques in particular. I would say early Michael Mann.

Are you a fan of the gangster genre?
I like them. I like them a lot. But I would say my favorite gangster movie would be “Raging Bull.”

Interesting. Not too many people would list that as a gangster film. Do you explain to people why or do you just let it hang?
I just let it hang [laughs].

How about some of your upcoming projects? Can you talk about “Black Swan” and working with director Darren Aronofsky?
I’m like a modern day [George] Balanchine. [My character is] the artistic director of NYC Ballet. I have a tendency to use sexuality to direct my dancers. He’s kind of a sadistic guy, but he’s doing it for the sake of art, you know. He’s a true artist, and he wants to get the best out of them. The only problem is, he’s putting a little too much pressure on some of the dancers, and they might eventually lose it. I haven’t seen it completed yet, but the bits and pieces I’ve seen I’m really proud of it already. It was easy [working with Darren Aronofsky], like with any great director. When you are on the same page with somebody it’s just being focused and having fun.

How about David Cronenberg’s upcoming “A Dangerous Method”?
It’s about [Sigmund] Freud and [Carl] Jung. [I play] Otto Gross, who’s supposed to be cured by Jung, but actually he’s actually a psychotherapist of the highest level. He’s totally crazy, doesn’t want to repress anything of himself. So he goes a little too far. Eventually, he will change the way Jung thinks. [Cassel also spoke about “Easter Promises 2.” Check that out here].

“Mesrine: Killer Instinct” open today, Friday, August 27. “Mesrine: Public Enemy #1” opens on Friday, August 3.