CANNES – To be frank, it’s hard to explain Olivier Assayas‘ impressive new limited series “Irma Vep” with a simple logline. It’s primarily about a modern-day movie star, Mira (Alicia Vikander), who is starring in a new limited series inspired by the classic French silent film “Les Vampires” which also inspired a 1997 film, “Irma Vep.” In the HBO series, the director (Vincent Macaigne), is remaking his own movie of “Irma Vep” into a limited series, just like Assayas is in real life. And, the Lacoste’s character also married the star of his ’90s film, only to divorce her a few years later. Just as – you guessed it – Assayas did with Maggie Cheung, the star of his original film. So, while being a hilarious (and perhaps somewhat too real) satire on the current state of the global entertainment industry, this new “Irma Vep” is also an exploration of Assayas’ coming to grips with a failed marriage that ended almost 20 years ago. It’s light, it’s funny, it’s shocking, but it’s also, thanks to Lacoste’s fantastic performance, dramatically captivating.
Got it?
Just a few feet from the Mediterranean sea, Vikander and Assayas sat down to discuss their new collaboration following its premiere at the 2022 Cannes Film Festival. The director, who won Best Director at Cannes for “Personal Shopper” in 2016, admits he didn’t start writing the series until Vikander, who had become a good friend in the years prior, agreed to play the lead character. But, he had started taking notes and imagining what a new incarnation could be. And, quickly understood he wasn’t going to be able to eradicate himself from the story.
“[I] realized that if I am making a movie that involved the history of the character of Irma Vep traveling through like a ghost, haunting cinema. Something had happened since I made the original film…which is, that I, myself, became part of the story,” Assayas says. “I’ve been one of the filmmakers who have been haunted by ‘Irma Vep’ and my own film became part of the history of ‘Irma Vep.’ And if I wanted to deal honestly with ‘Irma Vep’ and how that movie changed my life, it had to include very intimate, personal elements. Otherwise, it would have been somehow dishonest because I’ve always believed that film and filmmaking are one and the same thing. What the film is and what is happening around the film is one thing. And, I didn’t want to shy away from exposing myself in many ways or maybe going into intimate, personal areas where I did not think cinema would take me.”
That format and the creative freedom from A24 and HBO allowed him to use fictional characters to slowly dive into his relationship with Cheung, who has mostly dropped out of the public eye. The one-time Hong Kong film superstar has intentionally avoided film and television cameras for over a decade.
Assayas admits, “I’m always inspired by how imagination, and real-life, are mixed with reality in movies. And here, it was a textbook case. I invented Irma Vep and all of a sudden, the actress who plays Irma Vep becomes the center of my life. At the time, it felt completely natural, but looking back on it, it’s pretty strange.”
And, yes, he did ask for Cheung’s sign-off before diving into production.
“I sent an email to Maggie whom I haven’t really been in touch for ages telling her I was making this film asking for her blessing,” Assayas says. “I asked her if she was comfortable with it. And, I asked her, ‘And of course, by the way, if you want to play yourself, that would be great.’ And her answer was, ‘Do whatever you want, however you want. I’m fine with it. But in terms of acting, it’s not my world anymore.'”
For Vikander, Mira, a Hollywood star wanting to prove she’s more than an action hero, isn’t necessarily a character she relates to. But she can empathize with Mira’s “living out of a suitcase” lifestyle.
“I guess it’s just at a certain point, I think, I could have easily done that in my twenties because it is quite a lonely life,” Vikander says. “As an actor, I did four films a year for about six, seven years in a row. I never stopped. And somehow, I’m very thankful. I actually have my same group of friends back home, even in Sweden. From when I was 18, there’s still like a whole group of them. I’m very close to them.”
At that point in her life, the Oscar-winner for “The Danish Girl” was doing things she “never could have imagined,” but reality would often hit her when a project came to an end. She recalls, “I’m staying at a beautiful hotel. But then, I also came back to my room, nights and I didn’t, I was like, ‘But what about now? What am I now?’ And then a film stopped and I didn’t have a home. I have two suitcases and it’s four years in. And thank God I then had people. I said, ‘Can I borrow your couch?'”
Over the course of our conversation, Vikander and Assayas reflect on their personal connections to the material, the out-of-character performance from Lars Eidinger as the eye-brow-raising Gottfried, their Ingmar Bergman connection, and much more.
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The Playlist: I don’t know if that’s because I live in Hollywood and I know too many of the types of people depicted in the series, this new “Irma Vep” really spoke to me. But my first question for both of you is, considering how much this series skewers the media, do you like the press? Should I even be doing this interview?
Alicia Vikander: [Laughs.] No, I think it’s so sweet. It was actually fun, too, to play a character who’s in the same industry. But I realized Mira and I seem to have issues with different things. Things that she [does], the perfume ads, and the press. I actually think I’m quite private. So, when I actually do these [press opportunities], I actually enjoy it because I’ve been home and tucked away. I’ve thought about that more. Well, I think it’s because I saved that energy a bit. And then, when I do press, I think it’s quite nice.
Olivier Assayas: And I have a slightly different perspective because I’m mostly like you. The only thing is that it’s the first time that I have to discuss a movie that is not finished. And, I’m still working on the last two episodes, so I’m drained. I’m really happy to do press when the film is behind me, it’s finished, and I feel I can discuss it. But, it’s weird for me to discuss something that’s still in the works.
The Playlist: Well, I’m sure this is the number one question you keep getting is, what made you revisit this in the first place? What made you 20 years, 25 years later say, “Let me turn this into something new.”?
Olivier Assayas: Well, I think it has to do with the way series have become, not exactly a dominant format, but not far from it. And so, I wondered if there was a space for me. The thing is that I can function in many environments, but ultimately I need to have complete freedom, artistic freedom. And, TV never gave me that. Never offered it. Now the way the industry works, people, somehow… You can find the freedom I need within that framework. And, it’s something I was not completely aware of, and I realized it. And when I realized it, I started wondering, “So, what could I do with that space?” Because in movies, you are always limited. Especially when you’re doing indie European films, you are limited by the budget because it’s only so much money you can raise. You are limited because if it’s more than 100 minutes, it becomes a problem with the distributor. You have stupid fights concerning those two issues with your producers, and so on and so forth. Working with A24 and HBO, I felt safe. I felt they were the best people around and they basically gave me the freedom I needed. Very similar to the freedom I have with my producers when I’m functioning in France or anywhere else in Europe. So all of a sudden, and because the industry is in flux, the industry is in turmoil right now. I felt there was the potential to revisit Irma Vep because I think that whenever cinema… Irma Vep is not a movie. Irma Vep is an algorithm that you can apply to different moments in filmmaking. Just to expose the craziness of it, the confusion of it, the chaos of it. And, I think that the questions and the chaos of modern, of contemporary cinema is very different from whatever it was when I was making the original Irma Vep. So, there was definitely potential to do something that was completely different. And, at the same time, very genuinely anchored, rooted in the experimental approach I used in the original film.
The Playlist: Well, this was going to be my last question but since you brought it up, in describing it that way, could you remake “Irma Vep” in another 20 years when the industry is in another era?
Olivier Assayas: I don’t know if I would do it but I think I could or somebody else could. Or, somebody else could do it in any specific film industry. Sometimes movies, I was using the word algorithm, but ultimately I would say it’s like a play. A screenplay is like a play meaning that you can turn it into whatever you want. Sometimes, I wish people would be remaking movies the way the stage directors direct “Hamlet” or whatever. A screenplay can be interpreted in a million ways.
Alicia Vikander: You kind of have to have someone, a scriptwriter, as good as Olivier to do it, though.
The Playlist: I was going to ask you, Alicia, what about this project made you want to come on board?
Alicia Vikander: Olivier himself. We had known each other for a while actually. And shared our love of filmmaking and movies and-
Olivier Assayas: And of Ingmar Bergman.
Alicia Vikander: Yeah. That was where it started. A few hours of Ingmar Bergman talk. And so, we actually just met for yet another lunch. We were in the same city and had a chat and then he brought up this idea. I thought it was not what I expected him to say he was going to do next. You know? But then, of course, he told me it’s not a sequel. And yes, by watching his films, I’ve been curious and admired how it’s such incredible work for actors, especially, to get to work with his dialogue and text. So, when he said that he had this idea and asked me if I was interested, I remember you were mostly concerned about the format.
Olivier Assayas: Yes.
Alicia Vikander: You were, “Would you be interested in doing TV at all?” And I was like, “Is it you doing the TV?” He’s like, “Yes”. Then, well, I was like, “Yes, then I am interested.”
Alicia Vikander: And then he started to write it.
The Playlist: You hadn’t even written it yet?
Olivier Assayas: No. I had not written it. No, because when I started thinking about “Irma Vep,” instantly, I thought that Alicia was the one actress who could do it, who could pull it off. And, so I needed to be sure she was into it before I started writing. And then, I sent her the screenplay.
Alicia Vikander: Like a serial.
Olivier Assayas: Like a serial.
Alicia Vikander: Like a different episode coming in. You know, we had chats in between, but it was really wonderful too. And I remember…
Olivier Assayas: She was my audience.
Alicia Vikander: …And I was so curious. And I was like, “Yes, but what happened? But where is it heading? And is that? These characters?” Because it’s all these characters coming in and I’m like, “Where is this going to go?” And then, I’ve asked you at some point and you were like, “I don’t know.” And I was like, “O.K.” You were like, “No, I need to have the experience, too.” You said, “I don’t know where these characters gonna go.” So, you were like, “It’ll come and I’ll have the same enjoyment of sitting back a bit and let my hand write it.”
The Playlist: Alicia, you have such a unique background because you came from European film, you’ve starred in big studio movies and you’ve been in smaller, independent films. How much of this “Irma Vep” world is from your experience, real? How many of these characters have you met or experienced over your career?
Alicia Vikander: I think it’s a similar thing when you sat down here. It’s a joy. Especially if you are in the industry, you’ve seen it. It’s more characters and situations. Moments that either I’ve seen this. I’ve heard about it. Maybe I’ve had a version of it. Maybe. It’s a pick and choose. And then, of course, it’s a comedy. So, it’s a satire. So, it’s pulled to the extremes.
The Playlist: But is it that extreme? That’s my question.
Alicia Vikander: No, but that’s what I mean. I think that’s the beauty of his writing too because it is always on the edge. It is exactly how it is, but then something pushes it over the edge. But, that makes you still be able to act like it’s completely normal. But, collectively this film shoot has a lot of things happening and going on at the same time.
The Playlist: I was going to say, Lars, who plays Mira’s somewhat unhinged co-star Gottfried, I feel like there must be a real inspiration for him. Have you guys at least met someone on some film, in some way, like the Gottfried character?
Olivier Assayas: I exaggerated it but to me, the inspiration was really the world of Rainer Werner Fassbinder. That’s what I grew up with. The movies of Fassbinder and the madness of German independent filmmaking in the seventies. Those guys were inspired by Viennese actionists and so on, and so forth. There was no limit. There’s no limit to what you can do on stage in Germany. So, my inspiration was Lars himself. Even if, he’s a sweetie. He’s the sweetest guy.
Alicia Vikander: He’s the sweetest guy.
Olivier Assayas: The sweetest guy.
Alicia Vikander: But then you see him on stage. [Laughs].
Olivier Assayas: He becomes wild on stage.
Alicia Vikander: I’m making a film now and the director, I just described a scene somehow from this [show] and mentioned, “It’s like, this German [guy]”. And he looked at me, and he was like, “Lars?” [Laughs.]
Olivier Assayas: No, but there were a lot of actors in the entourage of Fassbinder who were living in some parallel crazy world.
The Playlist: Olivier, I think the other thing about the series that I think people are going to find so surprising is how personal and meta it is to your own life. What made you want to go down that road with Vincent Macaigne’s character, the director?
Olivier Assayas: I think it invited itself into the story. When I started imagining about and started taking notes and writing, about a new version of “Irma Vep” initially, I thought Mira would be much more present than the character of Maggie in the original film. It was going to be much more the actual story of Mira. That was clear from the start. But, I also realized that if I am making a movie that involved the history of the character of Irma Vep traveling through like a ghost, haunting cinema. Something had happened since I made the original film. Which is, that I, myself, became part of the story. I’ve been one of the filmmakers who have been haunted by “Irma Vep” and my own film became part of the history of “Irma Vep.” And if I wanted to deal honestly with “Irma Vep” and how that movie changed my life, it had to include very intimate, personal elements. Otherwise, it would have been somehow dishonest because I’ve always believed that film and filmmaking are one and the same thing. What the film is and what is happening around the film is one thing. And, I didn’t want to shy away from exposing myself in many ways or maybe going into intimate, personal areas where I did not think cinema would take me.
The Playlist: But you could do it here as a series, as opposed to in a film?
Olivier Assayas: I could do it here because, again, because I was dealing with something that… It has to do with my failed marriage with Maggie Cheung, of course. I’m always inspired by how imagination, and real-life, are mixed with reality in movies. And here, it was a textbook case. I invented Irma Vep and all of a sudden, the actress who plays Irma Vep becomes the center of my life. At the time, it felt completely natural, but looking back on it, it’s pretty strange.
The Playlist: I don’t want to harp too much on this, but I’m just curious. Maggie is really out of the public spotlight. She doesn’t do movies really anymore.
Olivier Assayas: No.
The Playlist: Does she know that you’re exploring this in the series? Did you talk to her about it?
Olivier Assayas: So, I sent an email to Maggie whom I haven’t really been in touch for ages telling her I was making this film, asking for her blessing. I asked her if she was comfortable with it. And, I asked her, “And of course, by the way, if you want to play yourself, that would be great.” And her answer was, “Do whatever you want, however you want. I’m fine with it. But in terms of acting, it’s not my world anymore.”
The Playlist: Alicia, I wanted to ask about Mira. Granted, we’ve only seen the first four episodes, but what do you think she really wants as a movie star? Because, at times, it seems like she loves the artistic aspect and at times she seems she likes the fame but says she doesn’t like the fame.
Alicia Vikander: I think that’s her conundrum. I think she always comes back to… I think at heart, she really does care about filmmaking. That I do believe.
Olivier Assayas: To me, she’s the very embodiment.
Alicia Vikander: And if anything, it’s more the noise that comes with how she lives her private life, that distracts her. Or, if that doesn’t work out, what actually does fulfill her is then to go on and jump onto a new film, or enter a new character, and embody that and let that take over. And, I guess it’s just at a certain point, I think, I could have easily done that in my twenties because it is quite a lonely life. As an actor, I did four films a year for about six, seven years in a row. I never stopped. And somehow, I’m very thankful. I actually have my same group of friends back home, even in Sweden. From when I was 18, there’s still like a whole group of them. I’m very close to them.
The Playlist: That’s rare for anyone, anywhere, to be honest.
Alicia Vikander: And I put a lot of, which everyone knows with a relationship, effort in. Because I was scared because I had these moments when I was away. And, it was thrilling, exciting. You’re also suddenly… I’m doing things that I never could’ve imagined. I’m staying at a beautiful hotel. But then, I also came back to my room, nights and I didn’t, I was like, “But what about now? What am I now?” And then a film stopped and I didn’t have a home. I have two suitcases and it’s four years in. And thank God I then had people. I said, “Can I borrow your couch?” Because that was the case. And, I think she’s come to a point where she’s done a lot, but she clearly has an urge to go into a certain independent film maze that she maybe has dreamed of doing, but hasn’t really experienced yet. Yet, her private life is a bit all over the place. So it’s, yeah. I think that’s what she’s trying.
“Irma Vep” debuts on HBO and HBO Max on June 6 with new episodes weekly.