You brought up the point that she’s a different sort of June at this point and the idea that she’s a warrior. This is a very minor spoiler for those reading but in one of the upcoming episodes, a character refers to her admiringly as a “warrior.” But she’s clearly been a fighter through the first two seasons. How would you compare this evolution to her resistance in the past?
In many ways, the show is about identity, specifically June’s identity and how that evolves and shifts over time. This season in particular, we’ve been playing that tension and that struggle between is she June, is she Offred? What does June mean when she’s already been through all these things? I think that her identity can constantly be shifting and evolving. I can say that this episode is a bit of a crucible moment where something new and strong is forged in it, and again, without giving the ending away, in the episodes to come, heading into the season finale, you see that. You see the fruit that bares. You’re absolutely right. In her own way, she’s a fighter and specifically a survivor throughout the whole show. From season one to season two, we see her making bigger moves. The few months of freedom that she has as June where she’s in hiding in the Boston Globe, it’s really hard for her to get back into that [former world] and we play that in the show, but once she’s kind of had that taste of herself back and specifically now when she is reminded in a very visceral way about being a mother, reminded of Hannah so powerfully in giving birth to Hannah’s sister’s half-sister, she is someone new. Again, it’s not a steady thing. As humans, we’re always evolving, and June, because of the story we’re telling the world in which she lives, is always going to have to evolve who she is, but it is a culmination of where she’s been up to this point through both seasons.
One of my favorite scenes in this episode was actually when Mr. And Mrs. Waterford [Yvonne Strahovski, Joseph Fiennes] have their freakout argument in the hallway of the house after June has been “lost.” We haven’t really seen them talk like this with each other during the entire series. What did you want to accomplish with that?
I think you zeroed right in on what the intent was behind that scene, which is it is the first kind of really honest fight we’ve seen these two ever have and that’s because they don’t think they’re being listened to. In their own house, there’s always, “We’ll read over here. We’re eating over here.” It’s keeping up appearances. But here, where they think they’re completely alone, they are brutally, violently honest with each other. The gloves are off. The veil is put away. That also is a byproduct of the brutality of the previous episode, where they both were complicit in assaulting, raping June. That is a moment where the hypocrisy was ripped away entirely, and once that scab is off, that wound is out there for them to see, so you get to see kind of what their marriage has curdled into laid bare in that moment. It’s as honest as we’ve ever seen them, and the question is is there anything coming back from that? Because you see it, even at the end of that scene, when June’s humanity kind of stays her hand and she doesn’t take a shot, or waits too long to take the shot, that Serena is completely shattered. Fred tries to connect with her and she pushes him away. There’s still a kernel of something there, but it’s been so corrupted by what they’ve built, but this horrible system they’ve built, the open question is can it survive that.
With this episode and subsequent episodes it seems like you guys are also dropping a few more into some pop culture references that you hadn’t really touched on. in the first season. Characters playing songs, people referring to things. The Oprah thing certainly qualifies. What was the thought process behind that?
It’s something that we did at the beginning of season two and we did also for the beginning of season three, which we are working on now. So, you will have your curiosity satiated at some point. It’s because we looked back at the previous season and talk about it, what worked, what didn’t work, things that resonated, things that did not resonate as much. We all felt amongst ourselves what people say about the show that finding those little touchstones to familiar things in our world are really powerful. They make the world feel of our time. They make the characters feel like they live in our world, so whether it’s [referencing] Yelp or whatever in the midst of the colony, which happens in episode two, the traumatic airport scene with ice and their byzantine new travel laws, those moments, whether they’re pop culture or political things, we think they really just ground the show and something that feels real and relatable. And as Bruce is fond of saying, it’s a show that’s scary and threatening and menacing, and the more relatable those moments feel, the more effective that emotional connection is. Also, specifically thinking about some of the things that Janine said. The “May the force be with you” [line] is one of my favorites of those moments in this season. It’s a product of the growth of the characters and where they are.
I don’t even know if you can publicly say it, but based on the end of season two how many years ago did the revolution take place in the real world?
I don’t have the timeline in front of me. We actually do have a very detailed, worked out timeline with when things happened. I don’t have it in front of me, and I don’t want to get this wrong, but I want to say that the takeover happened around 2014, I think.
So, it’s only been four years, or is the show a few years into the future?
No, no, no. The idea is that this is vaguely a parallel universe version of our world, so what’s present day in Gilead is present day now. It’s 2018 in Gilead as we speak. It was a very effective, very fast turnover. Margaret Atwood, among her many inspirations for the novel, drew upon the Iranian revolution, which happened very quickly. It’s a young government.
I did a podcast with Yvonne last month and she said she often asks Bruce certain questions about her character’s former life, for background, etc. Are all those details in Bruce’s head or do you guys have private breakdowns where this is the commander’s backstory, this is June’s, etc. or is it a little more nebulous?
If you’re asking do we have detailed biographies worked up for everybody we see the exploration of our characters and their lives pre-Gilead as part of the fun exploration of the show. Bruce is fond of saying, “We follow our curiosity.” So, understanding where people are when we meet them and how they got there, that’s part of the fun and the creative challenge of the show. You’re finding the right places and times and stories to pick out there, but we have this amazing treasure trove of these characters and this incredibly gifted cast to be able to activate that, so we have a lot of flexibility in that. Nothing is nailed down. If we can answer those questions, what [prompts] them and they have a discussion, but a lot of that is the discovery in the invention process that happens in the writer’s room.
“The Handmaid’s Tale” season 2 is now available on Hulu. New episodes debut every Wednesday through July 11.