One of the best-kept secrets in the world of Reality-Competition Series is the creative and often breathtaking joy of HBO Max’s “Legendary.” Entering its third season, the program finds 10 ballroom houses competing in performance categories such as voguing, face, and dips for a prize of $100,000 and an increasingly shiny trophy. This year, the show’s judges have a new weapon at their disposal, the “gag flag.” A one-time opportunity to save a house from being eliminated in that particular episode. And the show’s host, Deshaun Wesley, knows longtime viewers will be surprised how quickly it gets used.
READ MORE: ‘Legendary’: Dashaun Wesley on the controversial judging of season two [Interview]
“It was up to the judges to make the decision of throwing a gag flag,” Wesley states. “So, they had their specific reasons why. And sometimes we can have our own kind of conclusion from what we see, but a judge makes a decision because of their knowledge. So when it was tossed I was just like, ‘Ok, OK. Oh, the gag flag. Got it. You safe.’ And it could have ended a house in the bottom, you just never know, and it could have saved them. I think this gag flag is going to throw in something very unique for this season. Other seasons? Like baby, if we had a gag flag, we could have gone a little further.”
That’s something of an understatement. With controversial eliminations being almost a hallmark of the series, the “gag flag” could have dramatically changed the results of the first two seasons.
During our conversation Wesley breaks down the addition of Keke Palmer to the judging panel, Leiomy Maldonado taking no prisoners, the difference between a traditional house and a “Kiki” house, teases the return of ballroom icon Dominque Jackson and much more.
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The Playlist: I want to ask you, what did you feel overall was the biggest difference in the show in season three, compared to the first two seasons?
Dashaun Wesley: Well, it’s things that were kind of gone from season two that happened in season one that I kind of excited it’s back, which is the audience. And I know it was kind of like pulling teeth and nails but I say the difference now is you get to see a different scope of how broad our community is. You see the Kiki scene involved which is kind of like the miniature scene of what our “mainstream” is. So, you really get to discover what our community offers, definitely for the kids who are underage, because a Kiki scene really kind of covers the majority of the kids in our community.
I wanted to ask about that. So, one of this year’s teams, the House of Juicy Couture, is referred to as a Kiki house. I thought I knew a lot about ballroom, but what is the stark difference between a ballroom house and a Kiki house?
Well, the best explanation is the kind of quickest enough I can give it to you. I say the Kiki scene is sort of like when you first get started in the community, that’s the best scene to kind of get your information when you’re first getting started because it’s a lot of youth and young adults and definitely a lot of people who don’t know much about the community, but I usually say that’s like the kick start to getting yourself prepared for the mainstream. Now the difference between the two, the mainstream is the one that existed overall for years on top of years, like when we go back to Pepper LaBeija days, the Crystal LaBeija days. So these are the mainstream scene and now we’ve gotten so big that we needed space for kids because a majority of what was happening, was happening in clubs. And [the scene has] gotten so big and kids couldn’t go to clubs. So they created their own world.
Not trying to put it in a box, but is it like a lot of underage teenagers who can’t get into the ballroom events?
Yeah. Like it’s it sort of for the youth and young adults first and foremost, before anything and definitely people who are new to this, they’re more so indulgent the Kiki scene because it’s for everyone who’s new and for the kinks and just want to get a kickstart in it.
But to clarify, you could be 16, 17, and amazing. And an established house could still ask you to join them?
This is true. You could be a part of both as well too and this is where you get a chance to see definitely on this show, how that plays about. And definitely when it comes to the mainstream scene overall the Kiki scene was for us to have fun, for us to enjoy what it is about ballroom that we love so much.
One thing I noticed this season, especially in the first couple of episodes is that longtime judge and house legend Leiomy Maldonado is taking absolutely no prisoners this year. You have some of the lowest and toughest, graded performances in the history of the show. Were you surprised by that?
I’m always saying, people have seen two seasons of this show. My community has seen it. So when you come on for the third season you already had great houses who already graced the presence of that stage. So when you come, definitely the judge like Leiomy, she’s expecting the best for you to step forward out there on the floor and represent us not only as well as yourself but you represent yourself as well as us. So I think people see on television, how it is until they get on that stage and realize this is not just the easy competition to graze right through.
Did you think that there were some established houses that came in and thought that their reputations would precede them?
Oh, always. I mean, we’ve seen that from season one. We can get a well-established house, but if you don’t know how to play the competition well, maybe you could be sent right on home darling.
Megan Thee Stallion has hit superstar status and was clearly too busy to return. But Keke Palmer is a fantastic replacement.
When I tell you, I cannot wait for everyone to get a chance to see what Keke has done this season, because is just so mind-blowing how well people are connected, and definitely those on the outside, looking in and knowing how much information they do know about this culture and what they do know. So, Keke is such a great addition. She’s doing her thing. And when you guys see her, oh, she really stands for her work as she says, so I cannot wait.
I thought she brought great chemistry in just how she interacted with Leiomy, Jameela, and Law. It was almost like she fit a role almost that the judging panel needed. Do you agree?
Yeah, it’s again, when we have an opportunity to get, for example, special guest judges to come by, have an opportunity to sit on the panel. Everyone is always baffled and astounded by the performances and sometimes by the things they see. But when you have someone who is there week by week and knows what she’s talking about and able to give feedback, as well as still learn at the same time with things that she didn’t know that she thought she knew, you see that she deserve to have a spot on that judge’s panel.
The big twist this year is the new “gag flag.” A moment when the judges can pull the flag and save a house from elimination at any time in an episode. And I was actually really surprised how early it’s used. Did you expect it to be used so soon?
I mean, I gagged at the flag too. And with that gag flag, you just never know who it may go to or when it may come, and sometimes you expect it, sometimes you don’t expect it, but baby, the first time it comes out, it’s like, “Oh, O.K.” So, hopefully, people have the same reactions just as you have.
Having not seen the entire season, do you think in the long term, it was a welcome addition to the show? Do you think it saved houses that needed to be saved?
It was up to the judges to make the decision of throwing a gag flag. So, they had their specific reasons why. And sometimes we can have our own kind of conclusion from what we see, but a judge makes a decision because of their knowledge. So when it was tossed I was just like, “Ok, OK. Oh, the gag flag. Got it. You safe.” And it could have ended a house in the bottom, you just never know, and it could have saved them. I think this gag flag is going to throw something very unique for this season. Other seasons? Like baby, if we had a gag flag, we could have gone a little further.
If you stop and think about some of the things that happened, you could have had a different winner for both of the first two seasons.
Oh, baby. You never know. There is always something new that’s happening. And within ball, we like to change things up so every ball isn’t the same. We always have different categories, different themes, different approaches, and everything. So, this season was just different. Maybe next season. You never know.
Also, the icon Dominique Jackson is back.
Yes.
She and Law famously got into it during her season one guest judging appearance. Can you tease her return?
Oh my gosh, O.K. I asked a question at the beginning of the whole episode. If I could tell anyone to just go and watch the very beginning, as soon as the two of them hit the stage again…you just have to catch what I have to say. This is what makes the show so unique because Dominique comes back again and the fans have been asking for Dominique to come back on the show because of season one and what she’s done and she’s become a fan favorite. So, when she comes back, just pay attention to how I do the introduction and you’ll see exactly how it was when they got back on that limelight.
Obviously, the first season dropped during the height of the stay-at-home. And then the second season came out when things were just starting to re-open. How do you feel the show has affected ballroom over this period? Do you feel like it’s opened new doors for the community in Hollywood or just touring or whatever?
Well, I will say this from a time that I sort of stepped into the scene and done my first experience of being on television, myself, a part of a dance group scene where it is now, where there wasn’t any opportunity, no auditions, nothing. And I think because of COVID and because of the show we came out during the very height of when it started, it did ruin opportunities for performers and opportunities for houses to go out there and sort of tour and figure out ways how we can structure our community to sort of getting the benefit of the hard work we’ve put into our community every day and every week. So we can get acknowledged for it.
I can say now I’m excited that because things are sort of open, we sort of getting to have a little party, a premier party going on and I’m excited that we get to celebrate with our community compared to the years before we’ve never had a premiere party because of COVID. Of course, we had Zoom parties, but again there’s nothing like having the experience of being celebrated for doing such a great job on the show.
New episodes of “Legendary” season three debut every Thursday beginning May 19 on HBO Max.