Taika Waititi may be a machine. Over the past four years he’s directed and written two movies (“Thor: Ragnarok,” “Jojo Rabbit”), executive produced two TV series (“What We Do In The Shadows,” “Wellington Paranormal”), directed episodes for two TV series (“Shadows,” “The Mandalorian”), shot four major on-screen roles (“Ragnarok,” “Jojo: Rabbit,” “Free Guy,” “Suicide Squad”) and is now directing his second Fox Searchlight movie next month in Hawaii, “Next Goal Wins.” Oh, and that doesn’t even count “Thor: Love & Thunder” which will shoot next year as well as an unannounced on-screen role he referred to during our interview. And somehow he’s been doing the requisite awards season campaigning for “Jojo,” the winner of the People’s Choice Award at the 2019 Toronto International Film Festival and a potential Best Picture nominee.
READ MORE: Taika Waititi to squeeze in a new movie for Fox Searchlight this year
The New Zealand native is so prolific that he admits his own son suggested he take a break. That won’t be happening anytime soon. Sitting in a hotel room in Beverly Hills, however, Waititi appears as fresh and energetic as anyone who just got home from a three-week vacation. And, trust, he knows his schedule is bonkers. It’s just that after hitting a level of success that arrived with the critical and box office hit for “Ragnarok,” he’s living the dream at the still spry age of 44. Now, Oscar may call coming again.
Yes, unbeknownst to many, Waititi is already an Academy Award nominee. He earned his first nod in 2005 for his short “Two Cars, One Night.” With “Jojo Rabbit” he’s brought his unique tone to a serious tale of Jojo (newcomer Roman Griffin Davis), a 10-year-old boy who wants to be the best member of the Nazi Youth he can be. Set in a fictional German town in the waning days of World War II, Jojo finds his hopes dashed after a dangerous accident scars his face. He’s then horrified to find out his mother (Scarlett Johansson) has been hiding a Jewish young woman, Elsa (Thomasin McKenzie), in their home. Jojo’s head has been filled with so much propaganda his imaginary friend (or inner dialogue) appears as Adolph Hitler himself (Waititi). Told almost entirely from Jojo’s perspective, the film looks at how ignorance and hate spread by authoritarian means can affect a child’s highly impressionable viewpoint.
Waititi discussed his new film in depth as well as his ridiculously busy schedule in the extended conversation below.
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The Playlist: Where do you get your energy? Is that a stupid question?
Taika Waititi: Heroin. A big bag of heroin. I don’t know how you take heroin. Oh, in needles. Heroin doesn’t give you energy?
No, I don’t know if it does.
Like in “Trainspotting,” I think it makes you just stand in one spot.
In “Pain and Glory” Antonio Banderas’ character smokes heroin and it knocks him out.
Oh, okay. So, it’s not the heroin.
It’s not the heroin.
It’s got to be something else.
For “Jojo,” I read that your mother suggested Christine Leunens’ novel. How long did it take reading into the book until you thought it could work as a movie?
It was actually when she described the book to me that I thought, “Oh, this is something”. I wouldn’t have read it it wasn’t something in it for me. The way she described the book, made me feel, “Oh, this is something quite cinematic”. And this idea of a relationship that should really never exist. This idea of this kid [in the] Hitler Youth who discovers his mother’s been hiding this girl in the attic. And she sort of threatens to kind of dismantle everything that he’s believed in or everything he hopes for. That was like a simple idea, but there’s just something, some reason it just felt like something that I could do. The book’s quite dark and also extends past the war as well, it goes on for a while. But I just took those parts from the book [that could make a good film] and then added my own things, like the imaginary Hitler, which is not part of the book. And a lot of the humor. So I changed the tone and added this goofball character too.
Where did that inspiration come from?
It popped in my head because I was like, “Oh, I want him to have no friends except for the one friend who also has no friends.” I just like the idea of these two German kids who are trying to be cool, which is in their eyes trying to be Nazis. I guess I was struck by high school structures, high school dynamics which is like even in Nazi Germany I’m sure there were nerdy kids who got picked on, and who were like, left out of the cool groups and had to eat their lunch alone. I mean if I ever wanted to feel like I cared a little bit about anyone who was in the Hitler Youth, like a kid in Germany during the war, that would be a way, you know? Because no one likes bullies and as a dad as well I’m always so worried that my kids might be bullied or that they’ll be picked on or someone’s going to be mean to them. So, I feel for kids who go through that. And then I made my Taika’esque, sort of accouterment upon this story.
Did you always think you’d play his imaginary best friend?
Yeah, there was no intention at all of me playing it. Because I’m brown. My hair is not right. I’m too good looking. It’s just none of that makes sense. I’ve got no business playing Hitler in a movie. I’m not the obvious choice. I doubt there’s any list in existence with those like, “Well, who should play the Aryan? I doubt there is any list in existence where I’m on that list. So, that was 2011, I finished the script, we sort of sent it out around the agencies just to sort of see who they might want to recommend or if they could suggest [anyone for] that particular role. And the usual kind of names came back. Because everyone always starts from the top and then goes down to the bottom. But we didn’t actually even get a chance to really do any meetings or anything because Jemaine [Clement] and I, that month or a month after, got the financing to do “What We Do in the Shadows.” So, I flew home to New Zealand, we made that, which I thought was going to be a really fast thing, and then I’d come back and make “Jojo”. But [“Shadows”] ended up being like two years of work. And then after that, I tricked myself into doing 2016’s “Hunt for the Wilderpeople.” And after that, I got distracted by doing “Thor: Ragnarok.” So I went off and had to go and make three movies before I had to remember to make this one. And when I came back, Fox Searchlight said “We really want to make this film with you. We loved the script, but we’re only really interested in doing it if you play Hitler”.
Oh, they suggested it?
Yeah. Supposedly they blackmailed me.
Had it been difficult to get the movie financed back in 2011?
We didn’t even really try. It wasn’t even a thing. I don’t know if it would be that hard. I guess it would have been. It was actually more the attitudes back then were still that you need a big celebrity in a movie as a box office draw. Which has kind of changed now. When we went to see Searchlight about this, they’re like, “Oh we don’t believe in that shit.” It’s like, it just doesn’t matter anymore. “We just want to make good film. It doesn’t matter who’s in it. People will go and see it if it’s a good film.” Which is great and that’s why they’re doing such good stuff. That’s really cool. It wasn’t that we were having difficulty. It was literally that Jermaine and I, we’d been writing “What We Do in the Shadows” for about six or seven years. And so when the opportunity came to make that, we were like, “Oh yeah, fucking let’s just do this”.
Well, you were passionate to do it.
Totally, it wasn’t like, “Oh, I guess I got to make a vampire movie cause I can’t make my Nazi movie.”
How do you think the movie is different now than if you had made it then?
Obviously, it’s more relevant now, which is sad. And also, I guess kind of good that exists in a time when it really means something. When I wrote it I was trying to make a film that was about war through the eyes of a child because I don’t think I’ve seen films like that which are really through that lens. I’ve seen films with kids in them, who were the main actors, but it doesn’t feel like a film that explores a child’s experience. Like a child’s logic and how they interpret things and how they look at the world. And how they see grownups behaving and how they take that and apply it to their own lives and conjure up imaginary friends. It is a way of sort of dealing with the world. And trying to deal with this girl in the attic. It’s essentially a monster in the attic. So, when my mother was describing this book to me, the way she was describing it made me feel like it was going to be something like “Let the Right One In”. You know I was like, “Oh, I can see that. I can see that movie in my head.” So, if a boy has never met a Jew before assumes that they’ve got horns and a devil’s tail it’s like having a monster in your attic. And if that monster is not going to leave, how do you deal with it? What do you do? You get to know the monster. And then you realize, “Oh, that monster is not a monster. It’s actually just another human.” That’s a simple idea, but I thought “Oh, I really like that”.
It’s also really impressionable for kids. I know you made this movie for everyone but during the editing process did you show it to kids to see how they’d react?
No. I knew that youth would see it and that it would work for youth. That’s what I really wanted, I guess, teenagers and adolescents. It’s a coming of age film so I felt like, you know, when people are coming of age. That’s when you’re most impressionable and you’re wanting to be important. You’re wanting to be cool. And you want to formulate ideas and have opinions at the dinner table around your parents and stuff. So, I wanted to like target those people as well. That’s why, for the most part, the dialogue is very contemporary. The way they speak in the film, that’s not anywhere near how they spoke in World War II and that was on purpose. I wanted [an audience to feel] if they close their eyes it could feel like it is today. Because it’s important that people remember those experiences in 1945 was like being in 2019 for the people in 1945. That was the modern times. And it can happen again.
It can happen again. This movie would not work though if you had not found Roman.
It would just be a movie about Hitler?
It would be a movie about an imaginary Hitler.
Looking for a friend. [Laughs.]
When did you know that he was the kid to play him? Was it the audition tape?
It wasn’t necessarily the audition, I think. I could see something more in the audition room when they talk to you and they loosen up a bit. I thought, “He’s quite an intelligent kid. I have to meet him.” So we did a Skype audition and as with all Skype auditions, it was terrible. They’re always glitchy and they’re always skipping and freezing. And you’re like, “What’s he doing? Is he a mime?” But it was fun. So we did that, and it was really through conversations on Skype. I thought, “I get it, this is a sensitive kid, and he’s a likable kid”. Which are the two things that are very important for this character. Because it’s hard to get an audience on your side when the first thing you show them is a kid in the Hitler Youth. Like, even if someone was to say “Oh, this a movie about this kid in the Hitler Youth”, even me, and I’ve made this movie, even I would be hesitant. I don’t want to watch a movie about a kid in the Hitler Youth! Those guys sucked! So yeah. And he really bought a lot of himself to the role. Roman, he just cares so deeply about people, and he’s very sensitive and compassionate. And the thing that you want in any actor is someone who’s emotionally aware as well. Who can ask the right questions. It’s a 10-year-old. “Was it emotional enough? Did I do it?” He’s like really asking the questions because he wants to do a good job.
The other performance that pops is Archie Yates who plays Jojo’s best friend Yorkie. You just watch him and think, “He’s going to be a comedic actor for 20 years if he wants to be.”
He’s like a little Rick Moranis. He just auditioned for Yorkie. I think I just looked at him once on a tape and was like, “Well you’re it. You can stop auditioning other people now. We’ll just use him.” It was like, “I’m not sure if he can learn lines.” But just hearing him talk. Just seeing him. I was like, “I’ll make it work. Even if I had to cut all the lines [around him]. I will make it work. I will put him in this movie”.
You’re in this crazy moment in your life where I’m pretty sure you’re still shooting “Suicide Squad.”
Yeah, that’s still shooting, yeah.
And you’re prepping a movie to shoot next year.
“Thor”? Yeah.
And you’re promoting this movie.
Yeah. I’m shooting another movie by the end of the year too. I’m shooting a movie in Hawaii in November. I’m in prep for it right now. This is my prep.
How do you multitask all of this? That sort of workload would stress out more than half the people I know.
Oh, it’s stressful. Don’t get me wrong. What you see before you is someone who is being eaten up on the inside with stress. It’s just I choose to look relaxed when I do it. Like my son said to me about six months ago, he goes “You should take a break. You know, you work pretty hard and like you’re always working and you should take a break.” And I was like, “I was as on a break for 35 years.” Now I’m getting work. I don’t want to take a break. I’m enjoying this and I’m enjoying working hard. I was on a break for so long before I got to be a filmmaker and before I got a career. Now I’m like, “Nah, I can do this.” And you know it’s not even a matter of spreading yourself thin. It’s a matter of just being smart about like where you put your time. It’s not spending too much time on something that you might not get anything out of. And that goes with most things in life, I think, you know? It’s like try and determine the worth of – I’m sounding like a businessman, and I know nothing about business – but time allocation is something that I’ve become really, really aware of. Just because I’m 44 and I have a limited number of hours in the day. And if you basically fuck around, you’re going to run out of time, and you won’t get to do the things that you want to do.
My last question about this subject is you have a role in Shawn Levy’s “Free Guy” right?
Yeah, “Free Guy” is right. Yeah.
You forgot you did it?
No, I forgot I did this other one in London just like a week ago.
Does knowing that you have an acting role on the books, does that make you focus more in a way because you like know that during that downtime you can sort of do your own thing for films you’re directing?
You know, I love film sets, I love watching people work. And I always have big ideas. So, when I go on a flight with my computer, I’m always like “O.K., I’ve got 10 hours, and I’m going to write for 10 hours, I’m going to get so much done.” All I do is watch movies. I don’t type a single word. I always feel so sad and disappointed with myself afterwards. It’s the same on set, like I’ll get on set, “I do my little thing and then when they’re setting up, I’m going to run to my room, and I’m going to do some writing.” I just sit around talking shit with all the other actors and other people on set. I don’t do anything. But again, it’s like sometimes I’m so unmotivated to do stuff that I’d need to do, but you just got to keep somehow wing it.
“Jojo Rabbit” opens in New York and Los Angeles on Friday.