Even most recently with “Florida Project” or even “Antichrist,” you’ve had films that do exactly what you just said. They make you look at cinema and the world in a different way after you leave the theater. Do you think that’s because of the early work you did in the career or is it because you search out these types of roles?
It’s also it’s what kind of actor I aspire to be, or am. I don’t know what the answer, what the truth is about that. But, I like going through an experience and being as transparent as possible and sort of losing myself in the idea of someone else’s situation. And, that’s simple enough. But I don’t like interpretation. I like to live something. I like to be transformed, and learn something and have that shift of my understanding, make a new person. And in that process, the audience is there with me. ‘Cause I’m their guinea pig. I’m like the idea that we’re in a tribe. And one guy gets up in front of the fire and does the dance for everyone else. And I like that. Not because he has special information, but only because he’s willing to be the dancer.
In that context then do you find more satisfaction from what has happened on that day of filming or in the end product?
No, no. But, I always say, personally, shooting in film is always much more fulfilling than the film itself. For me. But that makes sense because you spend sometimes three months on a film, of your life, and all kinds of things happen. And it can be a very rich, a combination of the artificial and the created, and the real, and where real life meets fictional life. That’s all really fun stuff to play with, think about, experience. So that is strong. Then, when the film becomes something, it often becomes a point of view, and it can be a beautiful thing. It can even be a living thing. But, it doesn’t touch the experience. The fact that what I’ve lived is temporal makes it stronger. The fact that the films, relatively speaking, will exist longer than me, makes them less beautiful. For me, personally. But I love movies. So, I’m just talking about when I make a movie, the making of it is always more thrilling than the movie. But having said that, when I see a movie, I can’t divorce the making of it from the movie. But I don’t have to, because it’s not made for me. I made the movie. It’s made for someone else, the public.
In regards to “Eternity’s Gate” and when I’ve spoken to you in the past, there’s a little bit of joy when you talk about that experience of what you did on set. And I run into too many great, accomplished actors who describe it as simply work. It was hard. There was nothing fun out of it.
It’s hard when you wake up, and it’s cold outside and you’re wearing a period costume that’s not warm and you’re freezing your ass off. There’s lots of discomfort. But, no, I like it. And I still like performing. And I love it because it’s always different. I joke with myself, I’ve got this thing where, really, when I start a movie, I feel like I’ve never done a movie before.
Really?
Yeah.
Is there a fear that…
No. Actors talk about fear a lot. It’s not really fear, because I felt fear so many times it’s not fear anymore. You know what I mean? Really, I feel comfortable with discomfort.
Oh, that’s a good line. That’s the truth.
Like right now, I’m doing a movie with sled dogs. I feel like a sled dog. They’re bred to pull that sled. They love it more than anything else. Their bodies engaged, their mind’s engaged. They go crazy. It’s an amazing thing to see. And when you see them run, it’s pure poetry. And, that’s what you’re aspiring to. To turn yourself into poetry.
I didn’t know about that one. You’ve been so busy over the past year and a half with “At Eternity’s Gate,” “Aquaman” and three other films was aware of including “The Lighthouse” with Robert Pattinson.
That’s going to be a beautiful movie. I haven’t seen a cut of it, but it was a real experience, with the guy that did “The Witch,” Robert Eggers. A real talent.
And, then you just did Dee Rees’s new movie, “The Last Thing He Wanted,” which was in London, right?
No, actually my part was in Puerto Rico.
And you wrapped the Ed Norton directed film…
“Motherless Brooklyn.”
Perhaps it’s obvious, but are you having the time of your life?
I remember my life by movies. And plays that I’ve done. Truly.
So, can we talk about those projects?
I took them for different reasons and they’re different projects and they require different things of me. Some I’m at the center, some I support. Whenever you come to a project course it’s always new. But your job is never the same. And that’s the pleasure, and that’s the curse. I mean, I think I have to be careful because I like to take care of my wife and I like to spend time with her and I’ve got a grandson. And, I have friends. And all those things get neglected when you work too much. So, you gotta be careful about that, that you don’t hurt your sentimental life. But as far as this idea of, working so much that you become dry, or the well becomes dry. That would happen if you keep on going to the same well.
But you’re not.
The idea is you go to different wells, I think.
Speaking of that. What is this movie you’re making with the sleds?
It’s called “Togo,” it’s for Disney. It’s about the 1925 serum run, dog sled run, in Alaska, to save the sick children of Nome. And it’s very much about a relationship between a real-life person, a guy by the name of Leonhard Seppala. And his wife, and his lead dog.
And is it’s freezing cold?
It’s freezing cold. 1:00 AM last night I was working and I wear parkas and that kind of stuff. So it’s warm enough, but you can’t imagine.
But it’s an adventure.
Yeah. Full-on. And I’m a musher. It’s incredible to be here. When I was doing that how many hours ago?
Not that many! But my last question for you is, you’ve already won the Venice Film Festival Best actor honor for “Eternity’s Gate.” You got another Golden Globe nomination for the performance as well. How important are awards to you? Do they matter?
They matter. They’re very important. Listen, through the years I’ve made a lot of films and a lot of them are not studio films. And, distribution is always very hard. And in our culture, people don’t know about advertising. They don’t understand the movie business. Some films aren’t made for large audiences. So, when a film has a modest return, or a film has a modest audience, people always dub it a failure, particularly in our culture, everybody loves a winner. They like the big blockbuster, rather than the small film.
Even if it made its money back.
It’s McDonalds versus ma and pa. And so, when the smaller film gets recognition, it brings a new attention to it. And it helps a great deal to bring people to it. In this case, for example, a film about Vincent Van Gogh a lot of people have a relationship with Vincent Van Gogh, but are they going to run to it, as opposed to seeing a romantic comedy? Or a big action movie? So, it helps when a critic’s group or journalists, say, “Wow, this is something to check out.” Then people get to it and then there’s a better chance for word of mouth. And if there’s a good word of mouth, then it gets its proper distribution, it gets to the people. So, I’m kind of moronically simple about this. It helps the films. And I love what I do and I care about what I do. So, when what I do is recognized in a positive way, and it brings people to see it, then I like it, very much. And it’s important. The same way that film festivals are very important to cultivate people’s relationship to films that might have a hard time when they’re thrown out into the marketplace by themselves. Without anything behind them. So critics are important. The tradition of film criticism, of course, is getting very short form, just by the nature of publishing, and newspapers, and how we receive our information, and how fast everything goes. But for that matter, film has found a new, different place in a cultural discourse. It’s not the same place it was. So, these words are important, because they create a kind of healthy talk about movies.
“At Eternity’s Gate” is in limited release.