Daniel Kaluuya knows the game, and he’s gonna have fun with it. When asked during an interview centered on his acclaimed turn in Shaka King’s “Judas and the Black Messiah” if he was reuniting with his Jordan Peele on the “Get Out” director’s secret new film, his tone turns jovial. And we assume he’s smiling on the other end of the line. He replies, “Greg. We don’t confirm. We don’t confirm or deny rumors. I don’t even talk about rumors like that.”
When he’s reminded the report came out in a trade outlet, he banters back, “It’s a rumor because you don’t know it for sure.”
What we do know for sure is that Kaluuya just won his first Golden Globe Award and is nominated for a SAG Award for his performance as Fred Hampton in “Judas.” The Chicago community leader was a rising star in the civil rights movement in the late 1960s before he became the target of an FBI crackdown. The film follows an FBI Informant (LaKeith Stanfield) who finds himself conflicted by his loyalty to Hampton and the Chicago Black Panther Party and his own legal troubles used deviously as leverage by the FBI.
Hampton’s son, Fred Hampton, Jr., and his mother, Akua Njeri (Mama Akua), consulted on the production, but Kaluuya admits he didn’t feel it was necessary to use them as resources.
“I didn’t go through that to kind of go, ‘Oh, what was this?’ I didn’t ask Mama Akua any question about Chairman Fred in that sense,” Kaluuya recalls. “I kind of just wanted to meet them as a person and say, ‘Yo, I’m here, and I’m playing… I’m playing your person.’ And I want you to meet me as me. It came from that. I didn’t go to family ask them for information in that sense.”
Our conversation with Kaluuya occurred about a week before his impressive Golden Globe win. He touched on his research for the role, the social justice movie trend, and even answered the inevitable “Black Panther 2” question.
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The Playlist: What made you want to make “Judas and the Black Messiah” your next project?
Daniel Kaluuya: Chairman Fred, the Black Panther Party, what they stand for. [Producers] Ryan and Zinzi Coogler, Shaka King, Charles King everyone on macro, LaKeith. Then when I sat down with Shaka, he said that he wanted Dominique Fishback and Jesse Plemons, and I was such a fan of their work at that time. There’s never one reason; there’s a universe [with] reasons to say yes to something or to go forward with something.
I might be wrong, but I’m going to assume you spoke to Fred Hampton Jr. and his mother, Mama Akua. Was there anything they told you that you found helpful?
I didn’t. I didn’t go through that to kind of go, “Oh, what was this?” I didn’t ask Mama Akua any question about Chairman Fred in that sense. I kind of just wanted to meet them as a person and say, “Yo, I’m here, and I’m playing… I’m playing your person.” And I want you to meet me as me. It came from that. I didn’t go to family ask them for information in that sense.
Were there any interviews or anything archival you found that was helpful for your performance?
Yeah. There’s loads of archive stuff; actually, you know what is one of the most frustrating things about this moment at the moment is that a lot of people releasing all this archive footage of Chairman Fred [now that movie is coming out]. So I had like five minutes or one minute of this [one interview to reference]. Now it’s like a 30-minute interview that came out now that just went out when we were shooting. But Shaka was an amazing resource to kind of give me a lot of audio that you can’t really find. And so I would listen to those. I wanted to see if there were more videos online, and I found one on Vimeo, and I realized I was a Chairman Fred video geek. So I got really excited. “I found a new video on Vimeo. Why did I never check Vimeo? It’s on Vimeo. Look!” Amazing because there was a move that he did, I was like, “Oh, I can…” I watched it before the “I Am A Revolutionary” speech. It was like another speech. And I was like, “Oh wow, he was freer than I even thought.” So, when I say “Hi, hi, hi, hi.” I kind of kept that energy based on that Vimeo video, I found. It was stuff like that.
Obviously, you’ve played other characters before where you’ve had an American accent. Clearly, he has one as well, but he also had a specific way of speaking, a way that people have heard him in this audio. How close did you feel you had to match that?
I think for me, it was a big decision to realize that it’s not an impersonation; it’s an interpretation. I’m not Chairman Fred is the reality of the situation. And my voice is my voice; if I then replicated exactly his voice, it would just be taken as foreign because it’s foreign to me. It’s less about the kind of physical surface than it was about the spirit. You know what I’m saying? Can I move the audience, the way I felt moved by him? Then the voice takes care of itself because then you have to occupy that space. And so it was coming out of that. Obviously, I studied cadence, and I’ll find the definition and principles of certain cadences. I sat down with that Opera coach, and Fred has a different cadence to when he speaks [compared to] when he does speeches. And I’d identify the two, as well as making them feel like the same person. They’re different, but they’re the same.
When I spoke to Shaka a couple of weeks ago, I asked him about the context of this film in what seems to be a social justice zeitgeist in Hollywood. This movie has now come out along with three other films that sort of tackle social justice in this period, such as “Trial of the Chicago 7,” “The United States vs. Billy Holiday,” and “One Night in Miami.” And all these movies were in production before anything happened this past summer with the George Floyd protests and the Black Lives Matter movement sort of coming back to the surface. As someone who’s now worked in Hollywood for a while, where these stories are finally being told, do you think it’s a coincidence?
I think these people are telling the truth. You can see that this is an after-effect of “Straight Out of Compton,” the success of that. And people in power and black storytellers to tell stories about their experience through their uncompromisable lens. And I’ve been blessed to be a part of a couple of them. The zeitgeist is kind of out of your control. I feel more stay in the space of like, “Just tell the truth and be present in that moment, uncompromisingly,” and then how people react in the zeitgeist. But if you’re in the culture, and you’re out there, and you’re really talking to people, and you feel like you’re part of the bigger conversation, and part of life, the truth is going to reflect your living.
I’m glad in many ways that people have their movies, are still getting distributed on all these streaming platforms, but it’s not the same opening weekend where you go into a theater and pop in and see how people react to that one moment in “Get Out” or something. You don’t get that feedback now until theaters reopen.
Yeah. I snuck into “Get Out” opening day because it came out on my birthday. So I snuck in, into a theater in Atlanta, and I sat in the back. And I didn’t sneak it to surprise them. I just went in to feel it. I wanted to watch it with people that paid. I’m actually really happy because I want to make stuff for people. So, it was like, “Cool, I’m there.” So that part of it is a shame that just in this process at this moment, you can’t feel it, but that’s just the way it is. I’m healthy, so that’s what matters most.
That’s what matters most. Actually, I didn’t even mean to segue to this, but a report came out that you are doing Jordan Peele’s next secret project. Can you confirm that?
Come on, Greg! Look at that. “This is that report.” Can you confirm that? Greg. I’m listening to you, Greg. We don’t confirm. We don’t confirm or deny rumors. I don’t even talk about rumors like that.
It was a trade outlet. [Laughs] It was the Hollywood Reporter. Why would it be a rumor?
Of course. Because then it’s a rumor because you don’t know it for sure.
That’s true.
You’re not going, “Daniel, this is what’s happening.” You’re going, “What is this? Can you confirm?” So that’s a rumor, and I can’t comment on the Hollywood Reporter, but we don’t confirm with rumors.
O.K., fine. [Laughs.] Then I’ll ask you the next one. In another world, you might have already been shooting the ‘Black Panther’ sequel. That didn’t happen after the horrible tragedy with Chadwick last year. Now, in theory, the movie’s supposed to shoot again this summer. Is that something that you think you’re doing?
I certainly have no idea. And I say that with my whole chest and my whole heart. I have no idea. I have no idea.
So are you keeping it open, though? Just in case?
Greg, my whole life’s open.
That’s good.
My whole life’s open. Because I’m living my life, I don’t have anything I’m shooting. Anything confirmed. No, because I do things. I like my feelings to come out and then just to be open. Ask anyone. I just have films come out, and I just leave it open and see how it lands. And I just live my life. I don’t have any plans, in that sense. Like, “We’re doing this. I’m doing that.” There’s no like, “Oh, we’ll moving the board, or we’re changing anything.” So I literally have no idea.
I get it. One last question for you, though. With this film, you’ve earned your second individual Golden Globes and SAG Awards nominations. Did that mean anything to you personally?
I mean, yeah, because I’m so blessed that I do projects that I believe in and I want people to see. So with these recognitions, they allow more people to see it, especially on a film like this and Chairman Fred and the Black Panther Party. And what all these incredible people did in Cleveland. The fact that more people are going to see it because SAG, a great organization that helped me out and helps god knows how many 1000s and 1000s of actors in the world. The fact they recognize it, and then you’re being recognized by your peers. It feels good. So what I’m saying like that it’s more about giving it more opportunity to reach more audiences, you know what I’m saying? So more people would just go, “Oh, let me watch this film. Oh, I want to watch this film I’ve heard about this.” A lot of films don’t get an opportunity where people can even say, “I heard about that.” So it’s a blessing that we’re in that conversation, and people are watching as well.
“Judas and the Black Messiah” is in theaters nationwide and available to stream on HBO Max.